Sorry for the radio silence, I was off jumping around in muddy fields to awesome folk bands down in Devon! Might do a little summary of that later on for anyone who’s interested.
For now here are some more links around the ongoing MMS/Jim Humble story. Topsy is a great way of keeping up with the topic, especially if you’re not on Twitter.
I don’t know if this is meant to say the ‘truth’ or not.
it acts like a water filter for your internals, makes perfect sence to me. [sic]
Yeah… me too.
The list of things people will claim this stuff cures is endless and ever more absurd.
What’s Humble up to?
Well their church is really up and running now- note the usual two-faced approach; science and the medical establishment are wrong, but look! What the scientists say proves our point (*cough whenweselectivelyquotefromitandtwistallfactsoutofrecognition cough*)!!
He wrote an utterly astounding response to the FDA warning, which Ben Goldacre has posted.
He’s also been doling out his tasty bleach in Haiti. This newsletter is a scary read, e.g.:
There will be a week of theory where I cover the details on what MMS is, how it works, the basic chemistry for anyone coming off the street, how it is made, labeled and bottled, how to treat Cancer, Hep C, HIV, colds, H1N1 flu, and dozens of other diseases. I try to tell you everything I know.
When people leave here they really know how to use MMS for all things, skin diseases of all kinds, colon problems, how to regenerate the liver, how to treat brain cancers, how to treat babies and pregnant women, and how to treat animals from mice to elephants. You will be personally taking MMS while here, spraying your skin with powerful solutions of MMS (but won’t hurt you), spraying others’ skin and hair.
You will learn to use sprays, baths, IV solutions, MMS gas, soak the feet, and most importantly, the new protocols that in the country of Malawi have cured more than 800 people of HIV plus 40 cancer cases, 50 of feet and leg numbness, 3 heart disease cases, 13 diabetes cases, and many other diseases and problems.
Regarding a conference you pay $750 for for the first week alone.
Supporters are sometimes so vehement that they’re using his wanted status as further proof of his genius; this guy practically worships him as a god, denouncing everyone (chemist, doctor, random person alike) who says otherwise, however much evidence they present.
There’s also this guy called Christian Pankhurst, a chiropractor, championing MMS in the UK.
Fortunately not everyone is sucked in by the hype as catlin, noBSpleaze and SilverFox in this forum show.
Dr*T makes the important point that dose is often everything when it comes to those dastardly ‘chemicals’, bleach included.
So I’ll leave it there for now unless there’s another revelation; people have been putting ASA complaints together but as it seems this stuff has been doing the rounds for some time, I expect people will keep using it. However, people buying it on the internet isn’t the scariest thing, as ever – gold-digging nutters pretending they can cure citizens of developing countries and propagating distrust of real medicine is far more damaging.
These people are murderers and I look forward to seeing them get their come-uppance, even if they’ll be replaced by another quack; hopefully they’ll be found out in turn.
Newer coverage in the mainstream media thanks to Martin Robbins – his Guardian article has a bit of a raging comments section due to the forum admins and users getting extremely defensive.
Perhaps finally there is also some recognition of the damage Humble is doing in developing countries, too.
Edit II: Looks like some excellent progress is being made, as reported by Martin again and CENtral Science/PLoS Blogs.
19 thoughts on “Bleachgate link roundup: 2nd and last”
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If you would consider the clear and present possibility that you may be acting on a mob mentality, and the more on your side of an obviously clear cut case, you seem to believe that your soooo correct. I realize that once we’re incorrect in a belief, practice, way of life, religion ect, it then becomes most impossible to recover. I only can say this from first hand experience in Africa, and that not with Mr. Humble on my own with another mission Org. If I recounted the story that I was the center of for most of a year last century, you would remember it well. Yet suffice it to say that groups, movements, churches, and not the least of wich the chuch of Rome can and do subdue our built in safety measures to protect us from falsehood. Yet when we are stubborn, self willed as I was, then we’re left to our own to save our selves from deceptions. I was blinder than the blindest of the blind. But some faithful friends continued to Love me into the truth, but it took some years. I followed an ideology that was based in mostly truth, with just enough lie mixed in. This has been a 23 year proccess of seeking out truth, and if you have any intellectual integrity you’ll reconsider your positions on this matter. Is Mr. Humble really all that your portraying, or is this a dog pack just thinking you see he’s ripe for the slaughter? Please for your sakes, respond to me, and that very soon, if your worth anything at all you’ll take the properly honest amount of time for humanities sake. If you think He’s a weak old vonerable man that’s just a little crazy, then continue your words, your going to find out what happends to careless mouths that don’t stop and humble down long enough to listen for even a minute to sound reason, they stop themselves by way of self destruction. Call me, I’ll even call you, here’s my email, email@example.com. Until then read about this story far more, there’s clinically proven data, that can be documented conclusively, that spans 75- 80 years. If I don’t get any response back, then an easy assessment of your affiliations with big pharma will be concrete won’t they? John Dixon, Noblesville In. P.S. Truth doesn’t have to hide, its what has always been persecuted for some 6000 years hasn’t it? Come out and play the real honest game, not this internet cowardess, that’s why you have my cel # number now, 317-681-3650, and if you want my adress you can have that to, nothing to hide.
that’s just hilarious. April Fools was last week, dude.
Also putting your phone number on the internet isn’t honesty, it’s stupidity.
Just saw this. Been taking MMS for 10 years. Only side affect is upset stomach when it’s done it’s work. My experience is, it’s not a cure all, but a preventative. You may want to open your narrow mind. My saying for the times were in right now is, Change or die.. Good Luck….
Thank you for your comment.
Do you have any specific questions? Links to information you say exists? I’m more than happy to answer questions, but you don’t seem to have made a point.
I apologise if I’ve missed it.
We have not come to a definitive conclusion on Mr Jim Humble. He seems to believe his products work, which is unfortunate and suggests he is suffering delusions of grandeur, somewhat. At the very least, he is deluded.
MMS is clearly a scam. Anything claiming to cure *everything* inevitably is. Disease is not, unfortunately, that simple. It’s a great shame that it isn’t! Our lives would be much easier.
Instead we have people who are foregoing tested, proven medical treatments in favour of crazy remedies (not just MMS, many, many things) and their health is being damaged as a result – to the worst degree in many cases, especially in the third world where Humble seems to do most of his damage.
If you have links to actual clinical data, please share them with us as we would love to see it. Unfortunately all we have are Jim’s books, which are mostly inconsequential and often frightening ramblings, and testimonials from many other people who make money from MMS or simply believe it works – part of the MMS church, if you like.
So, again, if you have a specific point to make or some questions to ask, please do.
where was this wonderous cure-all during the Ebola outbreak ???? little did the doctors know that instead of spraying their clothing etc they should have been drinking it
Clinically proven data, eh? I don’t suppose you feel like telling us where it’s published, do you?
Oh, don’t tell me, just as you were about to submit it all for publication, the dog ate it, right?
Here’s the thing, you see John. You can make outlandish claims all you like about miracle cures. But until you have something published in a peer-reviewed journal, or similar source allowing independent verification, no-one is going to believe you.
Noodlemaz, It seems your another one whose grasp of how the human body works is extremely poor.
Your body is comprised of 150 different types of cells, i.e.: skin cells, blood cells, nerve cells, etc that each have a different half-life of survival, and they constantly die and replace themselves throughout your whole life span. New cell generations are dependent on the building materials you fed. Your cells require the 90-plus nutrients that coming from nine different categories that are necessary to make the hormones, peptides, neurotransmitters and proteins for new cell growth and proper functioning of the body systems as a whole. If your missing any of these nutrients in your diet and/or either filling your body or exposing your body to the 24,000 toxins per day that on average your body is exposed to, the delicate balance which is indicated by your pH level is compromised (dropping in the acidic range) and your cells don’t renew themselves properly and the communication between cells breaks down. Your body has 9 buffers (increase oxygenation, using amino acids or high pH body fluids or electrolyte buffers – calcium, magnesium, sodium and potassium, filter or eliminate through bodily elimination routes, manufacture bicarbonates, stealing minerals from other areas of the body, pushing acids to outer extremities and finally dumping acids into the blood and vital organs) in order to try and neutralise acidic wastes. The first buffers is the mildest response and the last is the most extreme. Depending on where you are on the scale, you will either be mildly ill to a “incurable” disease. Detoxing is simply ensuring that your body has the necessary materials (vitamins, minerals and nutrients) so that your body can effectively eliminate these built up acids in your system from poor diet and exposure to toxins. (Let me say, Ben Goldacre knows little to nothing about science. He is a hack)
When your body is acidic (pH below 7), your body becomes home to large quantities of pathogens. That’s because almost all pathogens require a anaerobic environment in order to survive. Similar to why you see mosquitos primarily around putrid water. The overwhelming majority of pathogens have cell walls that are positively charged. I’m sure you should grasp what would happen to a pathogen when it comes into contact with chlorine dioxide?!? That’s why chlorine dioxide is approved in the US by the EPA for safely removing pathogens. Of course if you use too much, what happens is that your body wipes out huge amounts of pathogens and your liver becomes overwhelmed. When this happens, your body will have a Herxheimer reaction as your body tries to eliminate all the dead pathogens. There is a product with the same composition as MMS that IS APPROVED BY THE FDA. The only difference is the amount of sodium chlorite parts per million is lower so it is less effective.
I feel truly sorry for Rhys since the conventional approach to Crohn’s disease is to try and suppress the symptoms as they crop up. This will not lead to a permanent solution to his problem since based on my description of his problem it is clear that the toxins (vaccines, antibiotics, etc) have accumulated around his colon. I’m not here to advocate for a super bullet solution of using MMS for his condition, but I think Rhys’ blindness to taking a holistic view to his condition is setting him up to a life with alot of suffering. For the pharmaceutical companies, they are very happy because they now have a lifetime customer. But dumping more toxins into his body in the form of pharmaceuticals will not solve his problem. It is only called an incurable condition because they haven’t figured out a drug to suppress the symptoms so that they can then say he is “cured”. It will not lead to a very full life for him but I respect his decision and wish him well on his path.
Um, is your text book, or whatever you’re learning your ‘biology’ from, from the fourties?
You’re seriously underestimating the complexity of our bodies:
210 cell types at last count.
There are far more than 90 things we get from the food we break down in order to maintain our bodies as well.
Peptides are just smaller chunks of proteins. Amino acids –> peptides –> proteins.
Pray tell what are these 24,000 toxins? You know we have kidneys and a liver that deal with most things that need to be processed out of the body, right? If they didn’t work, you’d be very, very sick indeed.
Dr Goldacre is not a ‘hack’, he’s a doctor. An epidemiologist specifically, that means he looks at statistics and the way diseases present themselves in the population, how that relates to the overall health of the population.
There is no ‘vitamins, minerals and nutrients’ – vitamins and minerals ARE nutrients. This ‘9 buffers’ stuff is nonsense, as is the idea of the herxheimer reaction.
Don’t bother feeling sorry for Rhys, he’s getting the treatment he needs.
As for the number of cell types, I stand corrected (I’m working from notes I made years ago).
As for the breakdown of 9 different types of nutrients, there is glyconutrients, sunshine or similar light, phytonutrients, enzymes, more than 80 minerals, 16 vitamins, essential fatty acids, carbohydrates and 24 amino acids. (There is debate as to whether water and oxygen are considered nutrients – if you include them one can say there are 11).
As for the toxins, start with vaccines, pharmaceuticals, environmental, industrial, food, water (from the chemically laced tap water), beverages, hygienic products (ex. sodium lauryl sulfate), household cleaners, heavy metals (mercury in your fillings, aluminium used for your food, lead in pencils), spiritual and emotional (anger, bitterness, stress). It’s 24/7. Obviously if your liver and kidney cells are overloaded with toxins and/or nutritional deficiencies THEY AREN’T GOING TO WORK VERY WELL!!!
If the 9 buffer stuff is nonsense, I eagerly await your explanation as to how people become ill on a cellular level (that is applicable for all diseases) or if that’s too difficult, you can explain it in whatever way you wish.
As for the idea of a herxheimer reaction, I refer you to my previous reply to your buddy Paul Morgan (correcting for the number of cell types from 150 to 210).
As for Ben Goldacre, the problem is that as he is either unwilling or incapable of explaining in detail any of the subjects that he makes statements on, he is a hack. A real scientist could actually provide a detailed explanation of the topic such as MMR, aids, etc. I’ve yet to see him show that he knows anything in detail about any medical or scientific topic. He quotes studies (Peltola study) that if he had actually read them he would realise it was useless since the follow up criteria had been altered. If you can point me to something he has discussed in detail (not his Bad Science – I’ve read it) coherently I’m more than willing to look at it.
As for Rhys, I wish him the best but from personal experience, I don’t hold out a lot of hope as the NHS is chock full of bureaucrats passing themselves off as doctors.
JohnT. It is you who clearly have no idea about human biology, physiology, biochemistry (I could go on). All you have done here is trotted out the same delusional nonsense that Jim Humble and his cronies who believe his every word state as if they were facts. I feel sorry for you if you have been duped by this bullshit. It is fortunate that your beliefs are shared by so few but disturbing that the gullible and vulnerable may also be duped and succumb to this utter rubbish you faithfully reproduce without question. Are you an avid fan of “Natural News”, and “The Phaelosopher/Failosopher” perchance? Thought so! The phrases “Dunning-Kruger effect” and “Crank magnetism” come to mind.
If – as you claim – MMS is “approved by the FDA”, perhaps you could explain why they chose to issue warnings against its use? Perhaps you are making the classic mistake of confusing chlorine dioxide (an approved industrial bleach – approved as a water purifier) with the sodium chlorite that is used to make chlorine dioxide by mixing with a strong acid? MMS is a 28% solution of sodium chlorite which is mixed with the “activator”, usually citric or acetic acid (both are weak acids), releasing a teensy-weensy bit of chlorine dioxide. “How much?” you may ask – f**k all is about as precise as anyone can be.
Your time and effort would be better invested in doing some real reading about the subjects you claim knowledge on as – to paraphrase Abraham Lincoln – it is better to remain silent and be thought of as a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.
I guess reading is not your strong point nor do you have any understanding of the human body. One doesn’t consume sodium chlorite, one ingests chlorine dioxide in concentrations of 1ppm. If you consume MMS IN HIGH DOSES (i.e. well above 1ppm) your liver and kidney will be overwhelmed by all the pathogens destroyed by MMS and it will provoke a herxheimer reaction. This will cause most people to feel nauseous and vomit. That’s why, as with any treatment, you don’t exceed the recommended protocol. For the rest, let me put it in the form of true or false questions for you. That might help you. (Take your time – I don’t mind if it takes a couple of weeks for you to respond).
Is our body comprised of 150 different types of cells? True/False
Does your body require the 90-plus nutrients in order to make the hormones, peptides, neurotransmitters and proteins for new cell growth and proper functioning of the body systems as a whole? True/False
Is your health compromised if over time, you don’t replenish daily your body with the proper nutrients? True/False
Is your health compromised if your body is daily exposed to thousands of toxins? True/False
Are the majority of pathogens that can affect the human body positively charged? True/False
Are certain amino acids, purines, polyamines, iron and thiols (all of which are required for pathogen growth and survival) highly reactive with chlorine dioxide? True/False
If over time, your body is undernourished and you are exposed to toxins, does your pH drop? True/False
Has the Environmental Protection Agency approved chlorine dioxide in safely removing pathogens? True/False
Has the FDA approved chlorine dioxide products for halitosis, teeth whitening and skin cuts (Note: That is not the same as saying it has approved MMS. Only products with the same ingredient)? True/False
Is there research showing http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1569027/ that chlorine dioxide in low concentrations can be ingested safely? True/False
Finally, my “beliefs” (fully researched and understood) have kept me in perfect health going without even the slightest cold for the last 7 years. As well my recommendation of MMS to my step mother eliminated her arthritis in two weeks and has kept her without illness for 2 years.
JohnT. It’s really difficult to argue with a deluded idiot. MMS is not chlorine dioxide, mixing sodium chlorite with citric or acetic acid releases fuck all chlorine dioxide. Your inability to grasp the basic concepts of human physiology, biochemistry, pharmacology etc. is truly stunning in its ignorance. You repeat the same old bullshit that “Bishop” Humble’s cronies such as “The Failosopher” (sic) keep coming out with and all you do is keep repeating the same old mistakes they make over and over again. If you actually come up with something new and different to say, then please present the evidence – a high-quality clinical trial is the bare minimum here. As for chlorine dioxide mouthwash – great! But ask yourself – seriously – is a mouthwash the cure for cancer, HIV, malaria etc. as Humble would have you believe. The lack of publication of any trial data by Humble except in his own self-published book speaks volumes for the evidence of benefit – it’s non-existent!
I will make no further reply to you as I hold very little hope that you have the remotest intention of engaging in a meaningful debate on the scientific evidence. Nor do I expect you to be able to grasp the reality of the biology, chemistry, etc. and the bullshit emanating from Planet Humble whilst you remain subject to the delusions you have clearly shown in your posts. After all, I have better things to do with my time, what with being a real medically-qualified doctor with a pretty good understanding of the human body. Any further posts by you are likely to be responded to with ridicule.
In an effort to help those who cannot read, I quote, Jim Humble
The MMS product and protocol was developed by Jim Humble, a gold miner and metallurgist, on an expedition into the jungles of Central America, looking for gold. It was a response to a need to help a member of his expedition who came down with malaria, more than two days away, through heavy jungle, from the next mine. After many years of experience, Humble always carried stabilized oxygen, which is really sodium chlorite (NaClO3), with him on such expeditions, to make local water potable. Facing the possibility of a quick loss of life, he gave it to the stricken man. To everyone’s amazement, he was well within a few hours. That sure seemed like a miracle, but Humble wanted to better understand what had just happened.
Over the course of several years, Jim Humble figured out that what made stabilized oxygen so effective in some malaria cases, was not the oxygen at all, but the trace amounts of chlorine dioxide. Further research led him to come up with a way to produce hundreds, if not thousands more units of chlorine dioxide than what is found in stabilized oxygen. This is through using a higher concentrate of sodium chlorite (28% — 22.4% effective sodium chlorite vs. 3% for stabilized oxygen), in conjunction with the activator.
Finally, as to your accusation about not wanting to have a scientific debate. I refer you to my previous post with the true or false questions. Maybe the questions were a bit too difficult for you to answer. If you try to answer these two true or false questions and look at the link provided, they might give you a bit of help. http://bioredox.mysite.com/CLOXhtml/CLOXilus.htm
1. Are the majority of pathogens (including the pathogens associated with cancer, HIV, malaria, etc) that can affect the human body positively charged? True/False
2. Are certain amino acids, purines, polyamines, iron and thiols (all of which are required for pathogen growth and survival including in cancer, HIV, malaria, etc ) highly reactive with chlorine dioxide? True/False
All the best
JohnT – have you considered a career as a comedian? Oh, of course not – you’d have to come up with some original material. Your questions have been answered here and elsewhere by myself and others far more eloquent than I. Irrespective of anything i or others say, the bottom line is that there is no evidence from any clinical trial to show MMS to have any benefit for any disease condition. As a water purifier and disinfectant, chlorine dioxide is excellent but MMS is not chlorine dioxide, it’s sodium chlorite. The lack of such basic knowledge renders anything you have to say on the subject worthless. I would laugh at you, but it’s actually quite sad to see someone drawn into Humble’s quackery hook, line and sinker. I suggest you listen to the SuperWooDuo podcasts to hear Humble’s “work” trashed, for trash is what it is
No further correspondence except at the request of the blog host (which I can’t see happening).
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