Purely a figment of your imagination

What amuses, annoys, concerns or otherwise interests me – Noodlemaz

Papa, Don’t Bleach

11 Comments

Here’s a child drinking it! Fun.

1. Sorry about the awful title

2. Watch this space!!

A new campaign is brewing, due to the goings on in this Crohn’s Disease discussion forum and the boy wonder that is Rhys Morgan.

Rhys explains everything here in this 19 minute video tweet, which I recommend you listen to, but he may be doing a shorter version soon for those with limited attention spans!

So for anyone who isn’t familiar with it, Crohn’s is a chronic inflammatory disease affecting the digestive tract. It’s not very well-understood at the moment, having a wide range of symptoms, severity and apparently significant environmental aspect.

Treatments generally aim to improve people’s quality of life – since Crohn’s currently cannot be cured.

As a result, there are many support networks for sufferers to share their experiences and help each other deal with the symptoms. This is commonplace for any chronic disease.

The issue Rhys (a Crohn’s patient himself) has picked up on centres around an ‘alternative treatment’ known as Miracle Mineral Solution (MMS). Looking around various sites it’s touted as a universal ‘detoxifier’, targeting bacteria and viruses alike, including HIV, malaria and even cancer. Edit: also being sold here in the UK.

In the forum we meet Chris, who explains that he’s having throat problems whilst taking LDN for his Crohn’s. Chris asks about MMS – could he take it to clear up his throat problems?

D Bergy tells him yes! Go ahead, but be careful with other medications.

MMS is not an approved treatment for anything, but I have found it to be one of the most effective methods of clearing unknown infections, and parasite removal in the intestinal tract

Starting to sound dodgy.

Give it some time and see what happens. The symptoms can be a good sign, but only if they are resolved at some point. The MMS wil likely clear it up, but you may have to swallow it to get to it.

Chris is advised to weather out negative side-effects and swallow the MMS.

it hurts too much to swallow even my own spit

Yet Chris is not advised to discontinue with MMS, but that it may be an allergic reaction to his LDN or some infection so ‘go slow’.

Rhys intervened to point out that the FDA has classified MMS as a health hazard because it’s an industrial bleach when made up as per the instructions.

Rhys tried to be careful with this, since the announcement was relatively recent and people may not have heard of it. Instead of being thanked he was personally and rudely attacked and has now been permanently banned from the site, despite being a fellow sufferer simply trying to warn people about this hazardous substance and call D Bergy out on giving dangerous medical advice online.

This site has acknowledged this warning yet still makes a lot of very dubious claims.

Everyone (surely?) knows you do not drink bleach!

This is very serious, considering the claims made about this product, due to the 1939 cancer act.

So, anyone suffering from Crohn’s or who knows people who do, please share the story and get the warnings about MMS around. This is no harmless patient choice, it is people really putting themselves at risk,  gargling and drinking industrial bleach, encouraged by people who are (obviously) not qualified medical practitioners.

Updates as they come.

Edit: Have a look at PenguinGalaxy‘s post for a bit more chemistry-based background.

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Author: noodlemaz

I prefer to think of myself as a realist rather than a pessimist, but perhaps that's just optimistic. Honest, atheist, scientist, feminist.

11 thoughts on “Papa, Don’t Bleach

  1. You might want to check your science. There is NO chlorine reaction in the body with CLO2 :

    Ref: http://www.travmed.com/health_guide/ch5.htm

    Chlorine Dioxide (ClO2) Chlorine dioxide is an extremely effective disinfectant, which rapidly kills bacteria, viruses, and Giardia, and is also effective against Cryptosporidium. ClO2 also improves taste and odor, destroys sulfides, cyanides, and phenols, controls algae, and neutralizes iron and manganese ions. It is an effective biocide at concentrations as low as 0.1 ppm (parts per million) and over a wide pH range. It is ten times more soluble in water than chlorine, even in cold water. Unlike iodine, chlorine dioxide has no adverse effects on thyroid function. Chlorine dioxide is widely used by municipal water treatment facilities.

    The term “chlorine dioxide” is misleading because chlorine is not the active element. Chlorine dioxide is an oxidizing, not a chlorinating agent. ClO2 penetrates the cell wall and reacts with amino acids in the cytoplasm within the cell, killing the microorganism. The by-product of this reaction is chlorite, which is harmless to humans. Chlorine dioxide is available in both tablet (Micropur MP 1) and liquid (Pristine) preparations.
    ————–
    http://www.frontierpharm.com/faqs.php

    3. Is chlorine dioxide safe?
    The Niagara Falls New York water treatment plant first used chlorine dioxide for drinking water disinfection in 1944. Currently, there are approximately 400 – 500 water treatment plants in the United States and over 1000 in Europe utilizing ClO2 to purify municipal drinking water systems. Numerous studies have shown chlorine dioxide, when used at the appropriate concentrations, has no adverse health effects, either by skin contact or ingestion.

    4. What’s the difference between chlorine and chlorine dioxide?
    While chlorine dioxide (ClO2) has chlorine in its name, chlorine dioxide’s chemistry is different from that of chlorine. Unlike the more common chlorine, chlorine dioxide, at appropriate concentrations, is non-mutagenic, non-carcinogenic, and relatively non-irritating. When ClO2 is added to water, it dissolves without ionizing. Or more specifically, when exposed to water, ClO2 does not release a chlorine atom to form hydrochloric acid as does chlorine, nor does it combine with organics to form chlorinated hydrocarbons, which are carcinogenic.

    One atom can make all the difference — just as hydrogen is an explosive gas, but when combined with oxygen becomes dihydrogen oxide – commonly known as water (H2O).

    • Interesting, John.
      You may, in fact, wish you check your science.

      ClO2 is a bleach that, while used at low concentrations in water purification, can easily damage human tissue at high enough concentrations. This is why the FDA (I guess you didn’t read the link, it’s here: http://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/Newsroom/PressAnnouncements/ucm220747.htm ) has warned about it, because making up MMS to the instructions, that is 28% NaClO2 plus ascorbic or acetic acid – produces more ClO2 than is safe to ingest.

      The very fact that people are complaining of burning throats (as one would expect if you’re gargling bleach ffs) should be warning enough.

      Just looking into some of the claims made about this stuff, they’re patently false. Will get onto that now and hope some chemists (as I haven’t done chemistry since university) can join in.
      However, if I poured this on my cells in the lab, I’m fairly sure they’d die. Which I would do, but I don’t want to give money to the people peddling this stuff.

    • From what I can tell from this document, http://www.epa.gov/ogwdw000/mdbp/pdf/alter/chapt_4.pdf , where pages 4-15 explains why ClO2 had biocidal properties, as you mention above, there is no reason why human (or any eukaryotic cells), would fare the same way as bacteria or viruses.

      After all, our cells and proteins also contain cysteine, tryptophan and tyrosine, and our cell membranes and lipids would also be affected. It seems to me to be an efficient but indiscriminate biocide.

  2. Hi John.

    You are right in stating that chlorine dioxide is an effective disinfectant, used in water purification, at low doses. However, the dose is important, and in this case it would appear that the FDA is of the opinion that the dose of ClO2 in MMS is dangerous.

    The other points seem to revolve around the fact that it is Cl- that is the problem, and not ClO2.

    However, ClO2 *is* toxic. The LD50 of ClO2 for human gingival fibroblasts is 0.16nm — ClO2 can kill human cells at fairly low concentrations — certainly lower than that found in MMS.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18819741

    ClO2 is also used to bleach wood pulp, and it is well documented that exposure to ClO2 amongst workers in pulp factories causes respiratory difficulties.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16236983

    Studies conducted on rats also suggest that ClO2 is a neurotoxin.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2213920

    The material safety data sheet for ClO2 is also worth a read.
    http://bit.ly/cizoFR [PDF]

    ACUTE HEALTH EFFECTS
    INGESTION: Not a normal route of exposure. Harmful if swallowed. Can cause irritation to mouth, esophagus, stomach, and mucous membranes.
    SKIN CONTACT: Corrosive. May cause redness and irritation.
    EYE CONTACT: Contact causes redness, irritation, pain, blurred vision, tearing, corneal injury and burns.
    INHALATION: Harmful if inhaled. Coughing, headaches, labored breathing, nausea, shortness of breath, pulmonary edema.
    CHRONIC HEALTH EFFECTS
    May have effects on lungs, resulting in chronic bronchitis and permanent lung damage (with chronic exposure).

    Basically – whilst a low concentrations it is safe (eg – at levels found in treated water), at higher concentrations it is nasty stuff.

  3. Abel Pharmboy (Terra Sigilatta) covered the FDA warning on July 30

    http://abelpharmboy.wordpress.com/2010/07/30/urgent-fda-warning-do-not-use-miracle-mineral-solution/

    and again at Science Based Medicine on August 6

    http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=6430

    And John appears to be a troll.

  4. I had written a sharp and intelligent response, but then the screen crashed and when I came back, Xtaldave and LizDitz had written what I was trying to say. So rather than rewrite mine, why don’t you just reread theirs again.

    T

  5. Pingback: Tweets that mention Papa, Don’t Bleach « Purely a figment of your imagination -- Topsy.com

  6. Oh look, Googling Mr Bergy brings up all sorts of things.
    Nice to see not everyone out there is gullible (as Rhys proves, anyways)
    http://www.lymeneteurope.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=570

  7. hey. I have been investigating and trying to expose MMS and Jim Humble for about a year now. I have a website that presents a lot of facts about his fraud.

    http://sites.google.com/site/mmsdebunked/

    Great work by the way, good to see some momentum against this charlatan.

  8. Pingback: Ask for Evidence – Miracle Cures | Purely a figment of your imagination

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