#Bleachgate: The Plot Thickens

Rhys is becoming a skeptical celebrity! His Twitter following is increasing exponentially and he’s off doing interviews for the likes of Pod Delusion [Edit: do have a listen, great episode!] and Skepchick. He’s written up the events himself on his blog. Joely has put her thoughts down, on why people are sucked in by ‘miracle cures’.

Rhys has assembled a small taskforce to document all the people selling  MMS, contacted the FDA regarding Mr D Bergy, has spoken to BBC Wales and is generally making excellent use of his holiday time. Kudos. Edit: now in line to take part in a Crohn’s/MMS documentary with a Yorkshire production company!

But now, something I couldn’t leave until tomorrow.

A Horror Movie

I just had to write about this video I’ve been watching; an interview with Jim Humble (reckon that’s his real name??) on the discovery, mechanism and results of MMS. Basically he seems to think he’s a miracle healer and that this stuff cures everything – and I mean everything.

Fortunately he talks slowly and I type very fast so it’s not taking too long to transcribe – most of it is terrifying and of highly dubious legality, I’d say. I’ve not used the quote format because it’s almost all his words; my commentary in italics.

Discovery

After going through his past life as a gold prospector and other random things, he starts talking about how he gave glasses of water with his ‘purification drops’ to people suffering from malaria in Africa and watched them spring up and start laughing about how bad they were feeling before. From about 12:00 onwards:

They were willing to try anything

Well exactly, sir. Desperate people are often open to anything.

He says the Guyanan government stopped him because US pharma companies threatened that they’d stop sending drugs if he kept ‘curing people with malaria’ and they needed their drugs in the hospitals. The usual ‘big pharma is witholding your cures!’ stuff.

I realised I was using stabilised oxygen and I started working with it.

Chlorine dioxide is what’s available in stabilised oxygen [stuff sold in health food stores]

It took me a year to figure it out, any good chemist probably would have figured it out in a day… a lot of chemistry I really didn’t understand [NO, surely not?!]

You simply add some vinegar or lemon juice and the acid releases the chlorine dioxide and that is what does the work… not the same as chlorine… it doesn’t create the chemicals that chlorine creates in the body or in water purification systems… carcinogenic chemicals, but chlorine dioxide does not.

He then uses some fallacy (possibly of composition, not sure) about how salt (sodium chloride),  which is harmless (although it isn’t always!), is very different from chlorine, therefore chlorine dioxide is harmless too.

Then he rambles about how it’s a better oxidant than Hydrogen Peroxide!! Well, anyone who’s bleached their hair will know that you certainly don’t drink that stuff.

It only attacks the pathogens! … There are no side-effects… after a few hours it turns into such a small amount of chloride (that’s table salt)… it leaves nothing behind to cause side-effects

Mechanism?

Interviewer: how does it single out pathogens in the body?

Pathogens are anaerobic… the anaerobic micro-organisms are the ones that do the damage. Oxygen-using bacteria are much stronger than disease-causing anaerobic micro-organisms so they cause all the trouble and are weak. [This is, as you may realise, rubbish]

Most people have been out in the woods and they’ve seen fungus growing on the trees. That’s anaerobic; you can walk up and knock it off because it’s very weak!

Er, what? 1. Fungal blooms don’t exclusively respire anaerobically. 2. You can knock them off because you’re many times their size and strength. Same reason you can push a kid off a swing, doesn’t mean they’re pathogenic!

It’s the same way in your body.

When you put chlorine dioxide in the body, it’s a weak oxidiser so it can single out the pathogens – it only has enough power to oxidise the pathogens.

Although it’s much weaker than ozone and H2O2, it has a much greater capacity; it’ll oxidise 2 or 2.5x as much as ozone but it can’t oxidise as many different things. Those things that it does oxidise, it does so with a great deal of power. [Eh?]

Chlorine dioxide is an explosive in large quantities… The way it kills a pathogen is it blows a hole in its skin. [NB/ bacteria do not, of course, have skin]

The normal antibiotic that you take, that antibiotic has to be built for that particular pathogen because it has to go inside and make the nuculeus [sic] quit working properly [That is not generally how antibiotics work, since bacteria don’t have nuclei – the ones that cause human diseases don’t, anyway].

But ClO2 blows a hole in the side, there’s no possibility of any pathogen ever building a resistance.

It kills viruses in a slightly different way. Instead of trying to kill the nucleus of the virus [a virus does not have a nucleus], it prevents the formation of the virus proteins resulting in the destruction of the virus… it also kills fungus and parasites.

Now for the SCARY bit [Edit: or so I thought; it gets much worse]

Contemptible Claims

1. Malaria

For example, malaria is caused by a parasite and normally a person with malaria given MMS will be well in 4 hours.

I’ve treated 2000 people personally and the people I’ve trained have treated over 100,000 people and in that 100,000 normally 400 people would die.

There were no deaths reported in that 100,000 at all. It really works well with malaria and a lot of other parasites, even worms.

Interviewer: You say in the trials, people had treated 100,000 people, in Africa?

Yes, in Kenya and Uganda. Then there was [sic] guys who I’d give the material and MMS to and they went to Sierra Leone and quite a few people in Tanzania were treated. I treated a number in Malawi. (Chuckle) All these countries are in Africa if you don’t recognise them.

Interviewer: What happens when word starts to spread?

A lot of other people come in but unfortunately things happen that sort of slow things down. A couple of missionaries decided I was evil and told all the missionaries in the area so that sort of slowed things down. They quit using the MMS. People didn’t get treated.

2. Miracle Healing

Interviewer: Because you were a threat to the power struggle?

Maybe. One woman came to me with pain in her hands. She put her hand on mine and I said ‘can you feel my fingers?’… ‘oh! the pain’s going away, I can feel the tingling’. A missionary came in and said stop it, stop it… she decided I was evil.

I developed a technique for healing by touch. The basic theory is that the brain controls all the healing in your body so if you can increase the communication between the brain and the area that’s bad, it will heal faster. In minutes sometimes… a little bit like reiki but not really!

—-

Interviewer: What response have you had from the orthodox medical establishment?

It depends on where you’re at. In the US, the medical establishment is pretty much against MMS.

I had a millionaire who was willing to put up enough money to treat the entire country of Haiti. So I went there with the idea of doing that and I tried to communicate with people there and I talked to all of the missionaries there and every one of them was connected with a doctor in the US and he said ‘don’t have anything to do with it’ – quite a few were enthused but when their doctor told them not to…

The medical establishment in the last few years have not been very receptive.

I’m in Mexico now and there the doctors have been helping me and a non-profit civil association was formed. A number of doctors have put their names to it.

Ready for it?

3. AIDS and CANCER

We’ve started doing clinical trials for AIDS, Hepatitis C and Cancer and those trials have been going pretty good [sic] and we have a guy who’s head of the prison system there – he’s also helping us. And the local hospital has agreed to give us 300 blood tests for free.

We’ve been out to treat the local Indians and tribes out there. There’s a lot of bottles of MMS being sold in the US too – at least 15,000 a month.

Say it again?

Interviewer: Are you allowed to say here on camera that MMS will cure cancer? [36:20]

Sure! (Laugh) I can say it – MMS will cure cancer.

Actually, I think you’ll find that you cannot. Follow-up in progress.

Interviewer: What statistics have you got on that?

In my opinion, you know, I’ve treated a few hundred people in Mexico, some were cancer patients. I’ve treated, over the telephone when people call me, at least 2000 people over the telephone. I’ve probably treated by e-mail another 4000 people and I have a lot of stories of people who have been cured of cancer.

There was a girl down in Australia who had lung cancer. The doctor said ‘you’re gonna die in about 2 weeks’. She wasn’t able to get out of bed and so her doctor heard of MMS, brought it to her and she was of course willing to take it and in 11 days she was up walking around and in 15 days she got in her car and drove down the lake and walked around the small lake. Before the month was out she was back teaching school. She wasn’t completely cured then but since then she has been.

Just the other day my friend who works with me there in Mexico, his uncle got cancer, got worse and worse… it was pancreatic cancer and he said ‘I wanna go treat my uncle!’ – we said ‘sure!’ – we flew to another city, he was laying in bed totally depressed. He said ‘here I’m gonna give you some stuff, drink it’ – he did the whole protocol that we have, which is putting the MMS on the outside of the skin and several other things and by the next morning he got up out of bed and walked around a bit.

This is utterly shocking to me. Pancreatic cancer is still one of the deadliest cancers around. It is no laughing matter, only 2-5% of patients survive 2 years after diagnosis. This is an horrific claim to make.

By the third day he quit taking the pain tablets. It almost always happens with cancer patients. By the end of the week he was talking about going back to work. When I left Mexico he wasn’t totally cured but he was up living his life again at least.

Misunderstanding Cancer

Interviewer: Because it heads straight for anything that’s anaerobic and cancer cells are anaerobic?

There’s more to it than that with cancer. We put it on the skin and we use DMSO, a material that soaks into the skin [yeah and you don’t want that to happen; we use it in the lab, never ever without gloves! Think he’s cherry-picked from wiki, read from here for example], used by people that treat horses and other animals and people all over the world; if you mix it with MMS, it soaks into the skin and takes the MMS into the skin too.

So when it takes the MMS into the skin it heads directly for the cancer and it soaks into the cancer too. Instead of attacking the cancerous cells, the weak cancer cells, because it’s DMSO it soaks into the cell and it kills the little bug that’s inside the cell that’s causing the cancer and it’s causing the cell to be weak and cancerous.

CANCER IS NOT CAUSED BY ‘BUGS’ LIVING INSIDE CELLS – cancerous cells are cells growing out of control. They are not ‘possessed’ by bacteria or anything else. This is a patent lie, a complete misunderstanding of the biology of cancer and to claim that killing some imaginary cellular parasite with magic bleach will cure someone of cancer is beyond my words.

When you kill that little bug, the cell becomes healthy again so you no longer have to kill the cell. So the whole theory behind using MMS to kill cancer; is we use it 3 or 4 different ways all on the same guy, because we want to have as much MMS in that person’s body as possible. We want to make the environment of the body totally reject the cancer. The more we can get into the body, the more likely it will kill the cancer.

But we’re limited because we can’t make the person sick. We gotta give him just enough that he don’t get sick but he’s on the edge of getting sick! So we’ve got to keep him just on the very edge and therefore it’s pretty intense for cancer, he needs to take it 4/5 times a day, small amounts instead of a big batch.

Interviewer: What does ‘small amounts’ mean?

3-6 drops of MMS, of course you’ve got to activate it too, in small amounts. The MMS is put on the outside of the body, affects the body in a different way, it doesn’t cause um, uh, a Hexeimer… Herzeimer reaction [sic - I don’t know what he’s talking about] (being the reaction that’s caused by cells dying) because it goes in and it kills the bug that’s inside the cancerous cells and it kills the cancer. So it uh, we’re, been having a lot of luck with cancer and almost every other disease you can imagine.

Marketing & Poor Advice

Interviewer: It sounds like there will be people who are paying very close attention to what you’re staying because they may be thinking ‘this is my last hope‘. Do they buy a bottle ans start taking it, do they need to consult a practitioner? Are there different protocols for different types of cancer?

Some people can self-medicate. Boy, medical doctors hate that! It’s going to keep them from getting a few bucks. But it’s a good thing, people taking responsibility for themselves. If you can find someone who has experience, that’s good, get going. I have all the data on my websites, and the protocols tell you how to do it – the cancer and other things as well.

Another tired argument; doctors don’t want you to get better because it damages their pay-check!!1! Well guess what, doctors are almost universally less misanthropic than this bloke.

The latest one is a protocol for people who have life-threatening diseases and… we’re getting the best results for, life-threatening diseases like cancer.

There are a lot of things you don’t need to go that intense with, you can take it much easier. Normally, I have all those protocols on and a lot of other data too.

I have what’s called an MMS Answer Site with more than 800 questions and answers I’ve given people over the last year. Those questions are cross-referenced in a number of different ways so you can look up almost anything; pancreas, colon or a number of other things.

The Motive

Interviewer: So what you want is to give people the power to take their own health welfare back into their own hands away from the professionals?

Exactly, exactly. The more someone takes responsibility for his own health, the more likely he’s going to be happy and stay alive!

There’s MORE?

Interviewer: So we’re talking malaria, AIDS, cancer, what else?

Flu, colds, all types of diseases of the mouth.

Um, uh… most people find that even if they think they have healthy mouths, if they will brush with MMS twice a day, they’ll find that their gums will get harder, their teeth will get more solidly in place, their teeth will get wider [?!], the MMS kills any bacteria that’s on the teeth and helps enamel remain solid and build back to a certain extent because if you kill the bacteria, the enamel can improve to a certain extent.

All kinds of people who’ve had terrible, terrible diseases of the mouth – including abscess teeth! For a long time I was pretty much convinced that if a tooth abscessed from the inside, you couldn’t get MMS into it and therefore you couldn’t cure it if you couldn’t get it inside.

One guy said ‘hey I’m gonna try that DMSO!’ so he put it in and brushed with a real soft toothbrush for a while, with the combination just brushing it – in about 2 days, the abscess in his tooth went away. That’s a total impossibility, but it worked! So it does really great things with the mouth.

I’ve had lots and lots of people call me and tell me that their mouth was in terrible shape and tell me how it’d improved to normal or even better than what you’d consider normal.

Home-run: TB and H1N1 flu

Interviewer: There are 2 modern-day plagues that could spread. One is TB and the other is avian flu. Would you have reason to suspect that MMS could work against both of these?

I sure would.

The avian flu of course, although there’s been and entire multibillions [sic] of people on this earth, there’s only been 300 cases of avian flu and those guys that got that was in places it was highly succeptible [sic] to it, the chances of it ever happening is very very slim. Although, our president Bush thinks, has been talking about how he expects it to happen and, y’know… in the drug cartels they’re talking about how it’s going to be, it’s just gonna happen sooner or later. They just don’t know how soon but they know it will.

Note that ridiculously emotive choice of vocab there.

Yes, some people think it’s been weaponised but I think that the flu that’s been most dangerous is the 1917 flu, it killed 15 million people. They reconstructed it from people who were buried in ice in Alaska…

Read what actually happened re: the 1918 flu on wiki for starters; I did a virology module at university in which Spanish Flu was covered. The viral genome was sequenced using samples from the victims buried in permafrost, it was not used to infect people.

From the sequence, its origins were pieced together; flu virus genomes are mix-and-match; the bits get shuffled around if there are two virus strains in one organism at a time, and the consensus was that different bird viruses infecting pigs resulted in a hybrid virus that infected people and then spread directly from person-to-person; the transition feared of the latest H1N1 resurgence.

I think MMS kills any flu that I’ve seen so far and it’s just a pathogen so it should be able to kill that flu as well. the best way is to keep a bottle of MMS on your shelf. [Handy for his bank account, no?]

Interviewer: Is there anything you can say about this yourself? This started in Guyana when? (John: In 1997 so 10 years ago now) It’s now a worldwide phenomenon, on every internet forum… the alternative health community is abuzz with this. Where’s it going to go, what are your personal plans?

I’d like to start in Africa and take one single country and just cure all the malaria in that one country and we’ll get a lot of the AIDS while we’re at it. Of course it’s a much more complex disease and much harder to handle than malaria but I think we have some protocol, ways of using MMS that will probably work on AIDS.

Interviewer: Do you have a country in mind?

Probably Malawi, it may not be that, but it’d be a good one because I talked to all the people in the government there. They were all very helpful, they all were happy to see me, happy for me to be treating their people.

There was no governmental problems at all – they had a malaria department in the government and that department was happy to work with me so I’d like to go somewhere, I’d like to go there just because it would be easy to get things going without a lot of uh, of getting permission and problems, that would be the main thing.

Peer Review??

Interviewer: Is there any possibility that you could get scientific studies written up in the scientific journals?

Yes there’s a possibility but I discourage that! I’ve had chances – people have asked me if I wanted to do that and I have discouraged it because we have been a grass-roots movement from the very beginning. We’ve been very successful in being a grass-roots movement and when I say grass-roots I mean below the governments’ radar. They haven’t been aware of us.

Grass-roots seems to be his favourite altmed community-friendly buzzword.

I had one of my friends check with the FDA the other day, he went in and went to the third man in control in the FDA and asked him about MMS – what do they think about it? The guy said “well that’s just crap, we don’t worry about things like that. We have these multi-million dollar corporations that are furnishing [sic] herbs that are replacing some of the drugs and we have, we have a lot of, we don’t have enough money to control them” he said, “why are we gonna worry about some guy down in the street selling MMS!”

So they aren’t aware of what MMS will do, aren’t aware of what’s happening. I want to leave it that way.

Convenient. So, rather than tell the world you have a truly miracle cure that could potentially save millions of lives, you’ll not bother with bringing in the scientists to verify that because the government wouldn’t like it. How very convenient for your business.

I don’t want the governments and the various different drug companies finding out about it. I’ve had chances to go in national newspapers and one or two chances to go on national TV and I’ve always rejected it, although I’m happy to go on the internet and I’ve had a lot of different internet attention.

I didn’t wanna get it spread out so much that the government’s gonna get their hand in it – because you know what they do, they stop, they stop whatever they can. So I’ve been avoiding that.

Eventually it’s gonna come, though, eventually the news is gonna get out, but I’m gonna wait as long as I can on that.

I think, we’re going to be doing our best, Jim.

Anecdotes ‘R’ Us

Interviewer: You’ve heard one or two stories of people who come up against the powers that be and suffered a little bit for that haven’t you?

One guy I know pretty well, was selling Assam [tea?!] that affected cancer and actually is called, an Indian herb and has been sold for 70 years. The lady selling it has had about 3000 letters from people who’d been cured of cancer. He was selling it on the internet.

I’ve left his gender disagreements in, he didn’t seem to know what he was talking about.

As soon as the FDA heard about it they confiscated his house and his car and his bank account and everything! They put him in jail and kept him from talking to his lawyer by moving him from jail to jail. They finally charged him after 6 months and when he said ‘not guilty’ and the judge says ‘wait a minute, let’s go to my chambers’. He said ‘you got a choice. Either you plead guilty and go to jail for 3 years or I’ll make sure you go to jail for 20 years’. His lawyer wasn’t there and he didn’t know what to do so he pleaded guilty and went to jail for 3 years. He got out of jail a couple of years ago and now he’s down in South America, he doesn’t want anything more to do with the US.

I had another friend who’s become a friend because he knows what I’m doing. He was in Africa curing malaria and people representatives from the drug companies told him to stop and he wasn’t gonna stop, he was gonna continue to cure malaria. One night when he went to his hotel room and he opened the door – a bomb went off and blew both his legs off, didn’t kill him. He’s in California now, he’s in a wheelchair.

That’s just 2 people I know personally.

A lot of the older guys; back in 1917 a guy named Coke [?] cured cancer; his material was sold to many hundreds of doctors and more 100,000 people were cured of cancer before the FDA finally stopped him. I could go on, there’s a lot of other stories

Later on in the 1930s, Rithe [?], his equipment and things cured another 100,000 people  of cancer [he loves that number] – the FDA stopped him, burned all his books and laboratory equipment. It’s burned many things many times, the DMSO book was burnt! They burnt a lot of books. [He kept saying burnt books, over and over.]

You gotta stay out of the hands of the um, uh, drug companies. And of course the drug companies run the FDA! In case you don’t know how that goes, the executives from the drug companies take a sebbatical, take a leave from their drug company and they go over and be the guy that runs the FDA for a year. So the FDA in the US is run by the drug companies, and (chuckle) it’s ridiculous! And they have stopped everything that cures cancer, and they convince the people (which seems to be easy to convince) that these people who actually have cancer cures are charlatans and bad guys.

I’ve had 3 or 4 friends who died of cancer [couldn’t have cured them then?] and said ‘well I’m not gonna go to those quacks!’ and actually the medical people are the real quacks, they’re the ones that’s killing everybody! That’s the way it exist now and it’s a real shame.

Hiding Out

Interviewer: Have you had any threats against you?

Not yet, but I live in Mexico just in case! I’m paranoid so I keep under the radar. I think I probably have another year or 2 before the FDA says ‘uh-oh, this stuff is starting to reduce the income of the drug companies’ that’s the thing, when the money starts decreasing, when it looks like the MMS is starting to replace some of the drugs then that’s what’s gonna really make them mad.

Business Plan

Interviewer: So your goal is to get as much of this out there as fast as possible before they realise what’s happening?

Yep, get as many people using it as possible. My book tells you how to make it, it even tells you how to manufacture it in your kitchen. So you can buy the book and set it up yourself and furnish it to your neighbours or family.

Interviewer: In your book you’ve got instructions on how to be completely self-sufficient with MMS?

Yep, step-by-step procedure to make a few bottles for yourself, and to make hundreds of thousands to be sold.

A $20 bottle can last you, personally, if you want to take a maintenance dose every day, a $20 bottle lasts about a year and a half – for the whole family about 3-5 months.

I don’t sell it myself except I’m starting to in Mexico but for the last 10 years I don’t sell it myself, I give bottles away, let other people sell it. Everybody kept the price down. We want to keep the price down so everyone can afford it. We’re all selling it for the same price, $20 a bottle – I don’t care if it’s Germany, South Africa, Australia… [long list]

That’s less than a penny a dose. You can cure a case of malaria for 5 cents. Even the people in Africa can afford that. When we go we ain’t gonna charge them that much, we’re gonna do it for free at first but they could afford it if they have to.

Read on for the last 5 minutes of weird, worrying stuff.

Interviewer: What’s your spiritual and philosophical backdrop? [1:05]

I like to believe that I’m a highly spiritual guy but not religious. I believe that uh, that the more spiritual a person is, and the more he looks into doing the things that he knows is right to do, the more power he has. I believe that in the whole movement towards a better health movement, towards making people well who are sick, which is totally against what the medical people are doing nowadays, but I believe the more people work towards right things, the more power they have.

Because if they’re really doing what they know is right, they’re not going to have any guilt. It’s buried in everyone’s minds somewhere; if he’s fleecing people of money, causing people to die, somewhere deep inside, he knows he’s doing wrong. He loses more power as time goes on. I think that’s happening on Earth today; as time goes on, as those drug companies cause more and more deaths and as the FD causes more and more deaths; people are slowly losing their power and not nearly as fast as we’d like! But they are, and I think that the alternative medicine movement is slowly gaining power, and the people in it are becoming more powerful.

What’s happening to me in a sense is, people are showing up to talk to me about powerful things. I’m not free to discuss most of them [oh, god!] but I think we are on the edge of a paradigm change in the healing industry and I think that change will happen in the next very few years. It won’t be a long time. That will help us in the paradigm change in the brutality of men against men. That may take 50-100 years and it hasn’t changed for thousands of years.. they talk about Jesus and Mohammed and all these wonderful people that have come before and there hundreds really, all taught love, talked about wonderful things – but there’s been no change in the paradigm of brutality in man.

I think that those of us now are beginning to come together in communication, not necessarily gathering in one place but communication – all over the world, like this group here that we’re having a congress here about alt medicine.

These things weren’t happening 10-20 years ago. Believe me the paradigm shift is coming, because there are a lot of people on Earth now that are beginning to do what they know is right.

Interviewer: I’d say that shift has started and we’re seeing it in our own lifetimes, we’re very privileged.

I feel the same way and to carry it a little further than that. In the past, many millions or thousands of years ago; there was a group of us who agreed to be here and work on that paradigm shift (Interviewer: I’m one of those too!) – a lot of people! I’m meeting them, people calling me on the phone…

We are doing what we know is right and we’re so much more powerful than those guys out there that are screwing people over causing deaths and suffering and pain – they don’t have a chance, they’ve lost! (Chuckle) It’s gonna take a while to get the point across but it’s gonna happen.

I watched the suffering and the pain for so long… I see it happen, seen the thousands of miracles in the last few years.

Interviewer: You’re absolutely right. You’re part of the movement that’s making this happen. You’re a great man, a very brave man for coming out to do this stuff so openly. Even if you are under the radar… tens of thousands of people are paying a lot of attention and you’re saving a lot of lives.

Thank you, it’s certainly my privilege to be here and have you say such wonderful things

Thank you – you’re welcome.

*Applause*

F^*%. Me.

47 Responses to “#Bleachgate: The Plot Thickens”

  1. Rhys Morgan Says:

    Brilliant blog post.
    Yet again, highlighting how dangerous not only MMS is itself, but the advice that goes with it to bypass proven drug treatments.
    What an absolute load of disgusting nonsense. I wish it were possible to prosecute him here under British law, because he would get sent down.

  2. Tweets that mention #Bleachgate: The Plot Thickens « Purely a figment of your imagination -- Topsy.com Says:

    [...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Martin Robbins, Martin Robbins, Johnny B Goode, Marianne, Jim Cornelius and others. Jim Cornelius said: RT @noodlemaz: BLOGPOST: MMS peddler claims it cures cancer, malaria, AIDS – everything. In Africa, Mexico. http://bit.ly/bJQBMh @rhysmo … [...]

  3. fran Says:

    Holy moly

  4. Joninfrance Says:

    Re FDA book burning, he’s referring to Reich and his cloudbusters and orgone therapy (cf Kate Bush cloudbusting)

  5. Comment: The miracle cure and the easy target | Zen In Heels Says:

    [...] I follow the skeptic set on Twitter, and there’s been a minor storm over his blocking, and his decision to challenge the use of a substance which apparently is a little like drinking diluted bleach. Noodlemaz has investigated in more depth here. [...]

  6. Kuly Says:

    A classic ‘cospiracy theorist’ mindset. These are people who have very little of note in their lives – but instead of doing something about it, they construct a vast fantasy in which they are the most important person in the World because only they know the ‘truth’ and everyone is out to persecute them because of it. They have a psychological need to be martyrs to their ’cause.’

    The problem in a case like is someone is selling something potentially poisonous and calling it medicine (much like what the medical authorities are being acussed of). And saying it can cure cancer and AIDS and giving desperate people false hope – despicable.

  7. warhelmet Says:

    The “Rithe” mentioned is Raymond Royal Rife http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Rife There are still people out there using Rife machines.

  8. Luke Says:

    Great analysis.
    There is a full transcript of this interview at http://www.projectcamelot.org/lang/en/jim_humble_interview_transcript_en.html

    Also, he was referring to the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herxheimer_reaction

    • noodlemaz Says:

      Thanks for that.
      I wonder how much of what he says is actually true. Not very much, I’d guess.

      Also, it makes me laugh how at the start he talks about working with atomic bomb tests and lunar modules, then ends up convincing people he’s part of some New Age I-love-everyone type movement.

      I’m starting to wonder if there’s more than one person behind the whole ‘Humble’ con.

      Ta for the Herxheimer link too.

  9. Viv Dawson Says:

    OK as a 65 year old with diabeties and relatives with cancer I went online in quest of knowledge…
    looking at ways of improving health and ways people have been said to ‘cure’ cancer…
    I went from the diet supplement routes to routes that one would view with great skepticism…
    * bicarb and blakstrap molasses said to have worked for over 200 people. Can’t hurt… bicarb was the basis for alka seltzer – alkalises reducing acid indigestion, helping hangovers and reduces inflammation and headaches (they added asprin too)
    *iodine – widely used when I was young now being ‘rediscovered.’
    *then the one minute miracle – hydrogen peroxide mix…
    which of course led me to
    *Jim Humble’s MMS.

    I do not know whether any of these work – but just knocking something down and mocking doesn’t help either!
    Good investigative open minded research/journalism would help!

    To say MMS is just bleach and burns is a fact but it is used for purifying water and cleaning chickens!
    If it just kills pathogens (this is the word used by Jim Humble not germs!)
    You had no need to transcript it all you could have just linked to his site but then people would read more widely and see that JH has had an scientific career in the space industry. All the info is freely available – so it’s not a money scam.
    There are lots of testaments as to cures
    ttp://www.miraclemineralstories.com/
    They could all be lying- but I think it better that people are referred to the sites to make their own decisions rather than just receiving your own jaundiced point of view.
    Band wagons are easy to climb on but I for one do not want people to tell me what I can buy/use
    I buy alcohol which is not good for me…
    other people buy masses of processed food and sugary food…
    our world is mad enough to suggest people take statins with big macs!!

    Back to the comments on how you handle it in a lab and reactions…
    compare with chemo…
    my cousin was told not to touch the chemo tablets he was giving his wife…
    sensationalism is easy – open mindedness much harder.

    Here’s an account from someone who decided to try rather than scoff!

    http://theomegaway.com/mms.html

    I was put on:-
    *blood pressure medicine – made me choke/cough was given another – same – so doc said try without I was fine
    *statins – realised after research that they may explain why my body ached – came off them -next cholesterol test fine!

    Now I just taking my insulin – but when I came across Jon Baron’s excellent website which had the best explanation I’ve ever read of diabetes I decided to work at reducing that – which is one of my reasons for trawling for info.

    Information is what I want, not rhetoric – you only think you are right – as does Jim Humble.

    • noodlemaz Says:

      Viv, I have tried to point out where Jim’s ‘science’ falls down.

      I have a biochemistry/genetics degree; he does not. His work has never involved biology or chemistry, he was a gold prospector. I’d be interested to verify that he ever went anywhere near the space program, too.

      Anyway.

      Others have picked apart the science even more factually; if I may link you to the ‘bleachgate link roundup 2′ – one of my more recent posts – I have put links to many other individuals’ writing which goes into more depth on the chemistry.

      ‘Germs’ is just a laymans’ term for pathogens; Humble merely uses ‘pathogens’ to sound more educated, but as with many things he says, he often uses them wrongly.
      He reckons bacteria have a nucleus; not true. That is GCSE biology! So anyone trying to convince you they’ve invented/discovered a medicine then gives you a totally MADE-UP mechanism for how it works, should get your back up.

      There is no reason a bleach would discriminate between normal body cells and bacterial cells; his aerobic/anaerobic respiration argument is also useless. Plenty of our own cells respire anaerobically in the lower-oxygenated areas of the body (and muscle of course; that’s what causes cramp!) and plenty of bacteria utilise aerobic respiration a lot of the time; it’s much more efficient at generating energy so anaerobic is almost always the second choice.

      At $20 a bottle, the guy is just selling bleach and making it sound fancy/safe with the make-it-yourself adding vinegar/acid bit. It’s dangerous, it’s not going to do what it says on the bottle (cancer does not have ‘bugs’ inside its cells; this was the most shocking bit to me, as I’m currently in cancer research – it is simply a lie and nothing else.).

      So, it’s good that you’re still taking your insulin as that will be essential to help you deal with your diabetes. May I ask if it’s type I or II? I’m assuming II but it could be either really.

      I do not ‘only think I am right’ – the reason I transcribed much of the video is because it is SHOCKING. This man is proposing to be able to treat malaria, AIDS, TB, HIV, cancer – these are the biggest diseases in the world, it’s simply criminal to pretend to be some sort of medical Jesus like that.

      Also I transcribed the end because he launches into the same old conspiracy theory rubbish as every other alt med scammer; Big Pharma is out to get you and take over the world, natural is better, the world is changing its dynamic blah blah.

      He’s a nutter (who’s started his own church, again see the link roundups) making money out of people’s misery and desperation, that is all.

      Also I studied statins at university; our bodies have not had time to adapt to our longer lifespan and radical dietary changes. Cholesterol regulation will inevitably fail, and statins are just one way we have to try to deal with it. Nope, they’re not perfect, many drugs are not – but the mechanism by which they act is well-known as are the risks. Not so with these ‘magic remedies’ people come up with and sell on the basis of them being ‘natural’ (doesn’t mean it’s good).

      I emplore you to be careful with what you take; all drugs can be dangerous, dose is very important, and when you don’t know what’s in something, you don’t know what it’s going to do or how much you should take. Don’t take the words of people who have no idea what they’re talking about.

  10. Viv Dawson Says:

    sorry spelt diabetes and Jon Barron incorrectly!
    ww.jonbarron.org/

  11. The man who encourages the sick and dying to drink industrial bleach : Bloggii – The Global News Aggregator Says:

    [...] contradicts the theory of nominative determinism pretty much every time he speaks. In a video transcribed and commented on by blogger Noodlemaz , he declares “I developed a technique for healing by touch,” before going on to compare [...]

  12. mmsdebunked Says:

    hey. I have been investigating and trying to expose MMS and Jim Humble for about a year now. I have a website that presents a lot of facts about his fraud.

    http://sites.google.com/site/mmsdebunked/

    Great work by the way, good to see some momentum against this charlatan.

  13. Kenyan government warns public of Miracle Mineral Solutions danger | Martin Robbins | Science News And Interesting Articles Says:

    [...] A few days ago I wrote about Jim Humble and his product Miracle Mineral Solutions, described by the FDA as “industrial bleach” (“The man who encourages the sick and dying to drink industrial bleach“). MMS was brought to wider attention by the work of 15-year-old Rhys Morgan, and its use in the developing world to treat patients with cancer, Aids and malaria was investigated by the blogger ‘Noodlemaz‘. [...]

  14. Roland Says:

    Hi! I write from Mexico (sadly, Jim Humble’s hidding place), and I’ve been researching this whole MMS thing for a while.

    I wrote a brief post in my blog, and some people wasn’t very happy about it… and that’s why I’m writting another one, with a more complete analyisis of Humble’s claims, and your post will be a great help.

    Recently, I also contacted the Mexican authorities. Bureaucracy is slow here, but I reckon we can make Humble’s stay a little less pleasant than he expects.

    Keep up the good work!

    • noodlemaz Says:

      Hey Roland,

      That’s fantastic, well done for trying to make a difference – I can’t imagine how difficult it must be over there.
      It would be great if the authorities co-operated with you.

      If you’re on Twitter, do keep an eye on the #bleachgate tag – we post all our updates and stuff there.

      Let us know if you need a hand!! :)

  15. Espejo Escéptico Says:

    Hi, I have my on blog, and I’m about to post something on Ozonetherapy. Does this thing have something to do with it? Because they also use Hydrogen Peroxide to cure cancer, aids and who knows what.

    If you have more info I would really appreaciate the help. Also, I will definetely look into him living in Mexico (I’m also here), this is a danger for everyone here.

    Thanks, and keep at it.

  16. Greg Says:

    For many decades the vast populous of western nations have been drinking every day water that is chlorinated. Therefore we are ALL drinking a dilute bleach solution and no one says a word about long term effects. What a fuss about MMS

    • noodlemaz Says:

      Greg,

      You have missed the point here.
      Chlorinated water is not the same thing at all.
      That’s like saying eating apples will kill you because the pips contain arsenic.
      True, they do, but it will not kill you, because it’s such a tiny amount.

      Dose is everything when it comes to medicine (and non-medicine). Look at the difference between drinking a shot of vodka and a shot of beer! Both ethanol, but the dose is everything.

      MMS when taken as directed is so strong as to cause serious damage to internal tissues. It is NOT selectively killing bacteria as promoted by Humble and co, it is indiscriminate, just as household bleach will take the colour from your carpet as easily as it cleans a dishcloth.

      It’s not a fuss, it’s a legitimate warning about a genuinely dangerous thing being marketed to vulnerable and unknowing individuals who put themselves at serious risk by using it.

  17. Greg Says:

    Another point, everyone seems to be holding up the exampole of the Kenyan Governments descision to warn about MMS as some kind of brave and bold move! Kenya is ranked 144th out of 159 in the Corruption Perceptions Index 2005. The most corrupt being at the bottom of the list and the least corrupt at the top.

    This is a case of jumping on the bandwagon, please do not hold up a corrupt administration as “experts” on anything worthy of our paying much attention to!

    • noodlemaz Says:

      It’s not about commending the Kenyan government.
      It is the fact that quacks like Humble are going to even *more* vulnerable people than those sitting in their mid-priced homes buying MMS off the internet; to developing countries where people are dying of malaria, TB and AIDS – giving them this bleach as a miracle cure medicine.
      That is fraudulent and murderous and that is what we speak out against.
      The fact that the Kenyan govt issues an official warning is a step in the right direction, but no one denies that corruption in many African countries is severe and damaging to the population.

    • Rhys Morgan Says:

      Also, if Jim Humble gives this to people and tells them they’re cured of HIV/AIDS and start having unprotected sex thinking they’re safe, they’re going to do nothing more than spread the disease.

    • MikeHypercube Says:

      Kenya has done a lot to clean up its act in recent years, but don’t you think it’s telling that all the places where Jim Humble has claimed such success are places which have, or have had, corrupt and ineffective governments.

      There is a reason that developed countries have functioning governments, and functioning governments have government agencies, and government agencies put out messages to the people about what is or isn’t safe in their various areas of competence. It is nice to see Kenya developing in this direction, and one less place for the antynomous Mr Humble to hide.

  18. Snake Oil Or Solution? An Interview With Jim Humble « The Merseyside Skeptics Society Says:

    [...] disease, it was reports from Martin Robbins (not least in the Guardian) and the blogger Noodlemaz which most solidified my preconception of our Humble [...]

  19. mike westen Says:

    What a ridiculous article

    You ‘skeptics’ are so deluded by your puffy chests and your feelings of self-importance, you fail to see the horrors of western medicine and lash out at everything that is outside of your small box of reality. Cant you see the plain obvious around you?

    If you put a fraction of your efforts into investigating the real efficiency of chemo, the side effects of vaccines and the toxins put into them, and the other monstrosities of western medicine, you would quickly realize where the attention should be. Actually if you start realizing reality isn’t like the movies, perhaps you will start being ‘skeptical’ about all the voluminous amounts of massive problems in the world that are coming from the same sources you are creating your belief systems from. Sane people realize their are agendas are profit motives in the world, and that yes there are plenty of big conspiracies happening right now , if not have you even read a history book?

    Why do you focus on something that thousands upon thousands of people have tried with great success on a variety of serious health issues, including myself. Where is your proof that MMS causes harm? Should we do a little comparison of what the damage ‘professional’ doctors and western medicine causes compared to MMS? Its so disgraceful that your misinformation can cause someone to be at the mercy of the butchery of the western medical establishment

    Time to wake up to the obvious folks and start paying attention to the real issues in the world.

    And here you have it here a clinical test showing no harmful effects http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1569027/pdf/envhper00463-0059.pdf

    • Marianne Says:

      Mike.

      Regarding the study, that is not a clinical trial of MMS.
      It is a very old study to make sure that the low concentrations used in water purification would not have serious effects on people.

      This 5mg/L concentration they tested is MUCH lower than the concentration ingested according to MMS protocols. It is not comparable, it is simply the look-here’s-a-paper-you-gullible-people-can’t-understand “evidence” that Humble uses to put you at ease and make sure you keep buying his stuff.

      I am in cancer research so I’m well aware of what chemo is.
      Cancer cells are very, very good at growing – that’s why cancer kills, that’s why it’s so hard to treat.
      Chemotherapy simply means chemical drugs taken to treat cancer. If you’re claiming MMS does just that, then you’re claiming it is also a chemo agent. It probably would kill some of the cancer cells we culture in the lab, but it would also kill all the non-cancer cells too. That’s a pretty crap cancer drug.

      Chemotherapy is designed to at least partially specifically target cancer cells. One characteristic of cancer cells is that they grow *really fast*. Most cells in your body don’t, except for a few like those in hair follicles, under the skin and the lining of the gut – they do grow regularly. So, that’s why chemo often makes your hair fall out and gives some unpleasant side effects like rashes or gut symptoms.

      Bleach does not even have some of these selective qualities. It’s indiscriminate, it’s dangerous.

      All drugs have some risks; but if you can buy them, that means they’ve been tested for safety and efficacy. People should only ever take medicines when the benefit outweighs the risk.

      MMS is not medicine, it’s just a chemical someone with very good marketing skills has packaged as an alternative to the BIG PHARMA CONSPIRACY. It is you, sir, who needs to realise that you’re being duped.

      • Bruce Says:

        Actually, the amounts used in the EPA 12-week tests of chlorine dioxide, that found no harmful effects, were greatly beyond therapeutic doses recommended by people using it around the world. From my research, and an article I put up at: http://bit.ly/dR0Wg6 – “When it comes to the dosages involved with MMS, we’re talking about fractions of a milligram per pound of body weight! For instance, a moderately large “6-drop” dose of activated MMS will provide at most 0.225 to 0.45 mg (depending on drop size) per pound of body weight in a 120 pound person.” In dosages per liter that would be less than half that amount.

  20. SDWFD: Episode 2! « Purely a figment of your imagination Says:

    [...] Posts Link Roundup: BleachgateBleachgate link roundup: 2nd and last#Bleachgate: The Plot ThickensSDWFD Episode 1Guns don't kill people, Rabbids [...]

  21. Fuck you Says:

    Surprise surprise free speech need to be approved with guidance of FDA, fuck you for wasting my time ,bleechgate you guys are pathetic

  22. Jon Says:

    @Fuck You

    awww, I think someone needs a WAAAAHMBULANCE, best make it one staffed by paramedics who don’t practice EBM!

  23. Simon Says:

    I was never sure whether this Jim Humble guy was a con man, or deluded nut job. After reading the transcript I still can’t make my mind up about the former, but certainly doubt he’s sane.

  24. Alex Says:

    Noodlemaz

    I m sitting here right now, and drinking MMS.
    All this fear mongering here from you, and from your Soulmate don’t work.

  25. stressfreesoul Says:

    lol reminds me of http://www.dubyaspeak.com/

  26. Yves Says:

    @Bruce – I know my comment is very late but could we see how you worked out your calculation? Or perhaps a link to forum where you show how you worked the “0.225 to 0.45 mg per pound of body weight …” calculation?
    Personally I am bad at those calculations so I don’t trust my working.

    What makes me doubt your calculation is that in the “EPA 12 week study” [1] that you @Bruce and @mike western referred to, there was no record in the test subjects of diarrhea, nausea or vomiting after administration of chlorine dioxide (and metabolites), even though they received “careful and continued medical observation” [1]. As part of the qualitative evaluation:
    “… careful clinical evaluation of every subject in Phases I, II and III failed to reveal any clinically
    important impact upon the medical well-being of any subject as a result of disinfectant ingestion.
    Further, there was no apparent grouping of the minor subjective symptoms and objective signs noted
    throughout the study …” [1] p60.

    This means that the test subjects received by your calculations a much higher dose of chlorine dioxide than usual in the MMS protocol and didn’t suffer any vomiting, nausea and diarrhea, that we know about anyway. Under the MMS protocol we would expect these doses given to the test subjects, that are according to you larger than what you receive when ingesting MMS, to result in the symptoms of diarrhea, nausea or vomiting in some of the test subjects as part of the “healing”. Instead no mention is made.

    This makes me suspicious of your body weight calculation and your assertion that the amount of chlorine dioxide you get in a dose of activated MMS is less than the test subjects received in the above referenced study.

    [1] Lubbers, J. Chauan, S. Bianchine, J. (1982) Controlled Clinical Evaluations of Chlorine Dioxide, Chlorite and Chlorate in Man. Environmental Health Perspectives. Vol. 46, pp. 57-62

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1569027/pdf/envhper00463-0059.pdf

  27. Гуруто на “чудотворния минерален разтвор” MMS | Моето ъгълче Says:

    […] името определя характера и съдбата. В един видеоклип, коментиран от блогъра Noodlemaz , той заявява: “Аз развих метод да лекувам чрез […]

  28. Ask for Evidence – Miracle Cures | Purely a figment of your imagination Says:

    […] is essentially a bleach and was dreamt up as a panacea by a strange man called Jim Humble. Rhys Morgan and I tried to work out exactly what kind of […]

  29. Bleachgate: More Miracle Mineral Solution (MMS) Madness | Take As Directed Says:

    […] from blogger, Noodlemaz, beginning in August. She deserves an award for having the patience in her 12 August post to go one-by-one through Humble’s contemptible […]

  30. josefranklin2013 Says:

    Maybe you should take a look at the biochemistry in order to understand how the ionic charge of chlorine dioxide works against microbial entities. This product is phenomenal. It is not bleach. Your premise is a fallacy. I would be willing to discuss further with you.

  31. drpaulmorgan Says:

    Josie,
    Your comment is provably wrong. While there is no doubt that chlorine dioxide gas is an excellent antimicrobial agent, MMS is not chlorine dioxide but another compound, sodium chlorite (be careful not to confuse it with sodium chloride, otherwise known as table salt). MMS is a solution of sodium chlorite that is mixed with an acid, releasing various forms of chlorine. If the acid is strong enough, some will form chlorine dioxide. Here is problem no. 1 with MMS – by mixing it with acetic or citric acids (as recommended in the Humble “protocols”), it will release little or no chlorine dioxide – the amount released is so miniscule as to be biologically worthless. In order to release sufficient chlorine dioxide for biological effects from MMS, a strong acid is needed – such as sulfuric, nitric or phosphoric. You cannot buy these readily over the shop counter! Thus any MMS mixed in accordance with Humble’s protocols does nothing. Zero. Not. A. Thing. The chlorine compounds so released may be inhaled, leading to respiratory tract irritation and no discernable therapeutic effect – quite the opposite, in fact.
    OK, so what happens to MMS that is ingested unchanged (as will happen to most of a dose). It may survive to reach the stomach, where it will encounter gastric acid – also known as hydrochloric acid. This is a strong acid and will release chlorine dioxide in the stomach. You make think this is good, as surely this can now enter the bloodstream to have a therapeutic effect, destroying all those nasty bacteria, viruses, parasites and cancer cells? Oh dear! A basic failure to understand biochemistry and physiology. Jim Humble was a gold prospector (allegedly), not a doctor, biochemist or physiologist. Any chlorine dioxide released in the stomach will only either cause local irritation of the gastric mucosa or may cross into the blood where it is taken up into red blood cells, binding with haemoglobin to cause methaemoglobinaemia (which prevents the red blood cell from taking up oxygen). This is a BAD THING.
    There has never been a single clinical trial of MMS registered anywhere, let alone completed and published in a reputable scientific journal. Humble’s ebooks should only be read for the entertainment value of seeing just how wrong someone can be – they are utter nonsense. It is difficult to work out whether Humble is a slick marketeer (no doubt some of his cronies are) or whether he is a deluded “true believer”. Whichever it is, he’s certainly a quack.

  32. Miracle Mineral Supplement - Magic Bleach! Insufferable Intolerance Says:

    […] dying to drink industrial bleach Kenyan government warns public of Miracle Mineral Solutions danger #Bleachgate: The Plot Thickens Jim Humble’s MMS Fraud Bleaching away what ails you – Science Based Medicine MMS (a.k.a., […]


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